Food For Thought

[elfgrove]

journal_jar

If the world was full of nothing but geniuses, how long would religion last? If it continued to exist, what religion would survive? Why?

Okay. I'm the first to admit... I don't know much about all the various religions. There's so many it's hard to know about them all. I am trying to learn though. If for no other reason than the fact that my current beliefs have yet to find a match. I'm happy there though.

I guess I ought to define what a genius is, but for my purposes, I'm going to say a genius is someone with a high IQ who prefers to look at something from a purely logical point of view. I know that's not always true, but, hey this is for the sake of the thought process I intended.

As far as the theoretical world of geniuses. I give religion in general a generation, maybe two or three, before it goes *POOF* ands disappears. I think that first generation will still go through the motions and rituals, spout the ideas out of tradition more so than anything else. As they present it to their children, they'll sit down and hash out the reasoning where the logical little genius children for the most part will not accept it. I give it a possible second and third generation to weed out the last of the people doing it out of tradition.

I'm not really anti religion, but the thing is, a lot of the beliefs, when questioned from a purely logical perspective, demand a bit more blind trust than someone who thinks in a purely logical manner would like.

Comments

well...

[thehippiechick.livejournal.com]

I'm a Christian and I hope my opinion won't piss you off but...

Religion isn't what makes the world go 'round... it's the personal relationship with Christ... that's how I look at it...

Re: well...

[elfgrove.livejournal.com]

Why would your opinion piss me off? I wanted to hear different people's thoughts.

I agree, religion does not make the world go round. A lot of people think things would be a living hell without it though. I intended with that post to make people think about the world. I maean, really, what is religion in the grand scheme of things? What makes the difference between religion and belief?

Personally, I don't see it as a personal relationship with Christ specifically, but I see what makes the world go round as being how you look at yourself and other people, how you treat them. Your personal relationship, with yourself, your world, and whatever god(s) you believe in.

Thanks for your reply.

Re: well...

[thehippiechick.livejournal.com]

::thumbs up:: coo'

[deathbystereo.livejournal.com]

I'm not too keen on the emphasis your genius definition has on logic. What about the great artists, visionaries, mystics? A computer represents the ideal in logical intelligence, but would anyone really suggest a computer possesses genius? To me genius is about vision, about creativity. Few would dispute that Einstein was a genius, but his acheivements came from more than just cold logic, they came from creative insights, flashes of inspiration, "strokes of genius"

But I have to agree that in a world of pure logic religion would not last 3 seconds, let alone 3 years. Religion, and so many other things in life, is based upon blind faith. When you get down to it there is no real reason to believe in the Christian God, the Islamic God, the Greek Gods or any other deity. People believe because they believe. The stupidity comes when people assert that their blind faith is "right" and everybody else's is "wrong". Sometimes so "wrong" that they need to be killed for it.

The major religions of today will eventually go the same way as the major religions of yesterday

"A day will come when the European God of the nineteenth century will be classed with the gods of Olympus and the Nile" Charles Reade

How long this will take and what will replace them are the interesting questions...

I am fairly anti-religion, or at least anti- the major religions of today. Their history is one of human suffering and subjugation, and their harmful effects will be felt for a very long time to come.

All of which is, of course, just my opinion :)

[elfgrove.livejournal.com]

You raise excellent points. I knew someone would catch me on that.

Yes, my definition of genious isn't too great. Well, it was mainly for the purpose of the argument I was making to myself, so I suppose I should ask forgiveness on that. However, when I try to defone genius, that is what usually comes to mind. In my thought processes, creative genius, while no less, if not more, impressive than logical genius, does not quite seem to fit the term genius. I tend to categorize it as something else entirely. It's as though it is genios, but it does not have a proper name because genius does not seem to fit.

I think humanity tries to put too many different things under the same name. Surely both creativity and incredible logic are both genius, but look how different they are... How can they really be confined within the same term? My friend, DreamSpiral's comments on the term friend reminded me why I chose that definition and why I feel this way.

"The most preposterous notion that homo sapiens have ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history." - Eleri

I have to agree that organized religion and blind faith have caused a lot of pain and cruelty, and one by one, probably every last religion will fall only to be replaced by something new. But, as much trouble as they cause, they also have their good points. They bring people closer together, and cause caring for other people as often as they cause hate. There are two sides to every extreme, two faces to each coin.


Of course, this is all just a matter of opinion. ^_^

[deathbystereo.livejournal.com]

Hmm...you certainly have a point there. I think that for my personal definition of genius there has to be some element of creativity, being able to solve mathematical theorems in a fraction of a second is not in itself enough to warrant the title 'genius'. But then I consider Sherlock Holmes, possibly the perfect example of logical genius. He took the available facts and drew logical conclusions, no more, no less. His actions do not fit my usual definition of genius and yet I would probably agree that he is a genius, albeit a fictional one. I think we are trying to express too many different concepts with just the one word, as you say.

I like the quote by the way, it reminds me of one of my own favourite quotes:

"What truly supreme being is so insecure as to need let alone demand human worship and subservience? Or, more to the point, what mature adult needs deities like that in his or her life?"
Jim DeKorne

I disagree that any religion has caused people to care for one another, or brought people closer together. Altruism, friendship, compassion, caring etc. all existed long before organised religion came into being. Religion may give some people a convenient label to pin upon their feelings of goodwill, but it is not the cause of these feelings. There are many non-believers who are shining examples of selflessness and compassion, just as there are many devout believers who are shining examples of selfishness and cruelty.

Maybe this is just a stage that humanity has to go through, perhaps it's purely a natural progression. Animism to Spiritism to Paganism to Polytheism to Monotheism to whatever. But I think the sooner we're completely free of Christianity and its ilk the better off we'll be. Depending, of course, on what exactly replaces it...

[elfgrove.livejournal.com]

I don't really know of anything to say to the first half of the post, except what i've already said: definitions are more a matter of opinion than most people care to realize.

I rather like your quote as well.

I can't say I agree with you completely. I certainly have my disagreements and grudges against organized religion, much the same way as it _seems_ that you may have. I agree caring and such defineately existed prior to religion, but you can't say religion has no impact on them. As you said, it's a convenient label, but the label is nessecary for some people to feel that they can express those emotions. Non believers and believers, that's no way to judge people for inner goodness, i know that. But anything that raises people from the beginning with a main teaching that says to be kind to others, it can't do only bad.

Maybe it is just a stage, maybe it's not. We'll see someday. But for now, I just can't think of anything as causing only bad things.


Laughs at herself actually defending religion... This is an odd stance for me to take, but, I suppose I enjoy taking the opposite end of a discussion, no matter how strange an angle for me. I see too many sides to everything in the world I suppose.

[deathbystereo.livejournal.com]

Okay, yes, I completely agree. I can't think of anything as causing only bad - or indeed only good - either and I think that viewing things in such a 'black and white' fashion actually causes far more problems than religion. But that's a whole other story...

Religion has had positive effects on people's lives, and on societies as a whole. I think that in the overall balance of the past two thousand years it has probably caused more harm than good but I'm not simple minded enough to claim that it is an entirely negative force.

However I do think that people would be much better off without it. I think that there's a great deal of truth in the quote "Religion is the opium of the masses" People would be better off without religion, or more specifically without the need for religion which so many presently have. It is, in the majority, pretty harmless but investing belief in these absurd and contradictory structures based on myths and lies is not a sign of full mental health.

It's not so much that I believe religion causes severe problems for the majority of the world - although the situation in Israel is obviously a notable exception - but more that in a perfect world - a probably unnattainable ideal, but obviously what we should be working towards - there would be no place for religion, at least in its current form. Religion is a mental health problem. I like that.